hard-coded subtitles not rendering

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vreebler
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 am

hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by vreebler »

UMS 9.1 on Windows 7. When subtitles are hard-coded into videos and are visible using SMPlayer or VLC, they are not passed to either the Web version of UMS (don't much care) or to the preferred rendering TV (do care a lot). BTW, separate SRT subs do render in web UMS but not on the TV. This is an old problem, seems to be a lameness of the middleman to my old dumb RPTV, a DISH Hopper DVR. I'm used to that, but I'd think hard-coded subtitles would render. Is there some setting I'm missing, some tweak I can do?
vreebler
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 am

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by vreebler »

Here's the debug file if that matters.
ums_dbg.zip
(1.63 MiB) Downloaded 383 times
Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by Nadahar »

I think there's some confusion here, I interpret "hard-coded" subtitles as being "burnt in". Such subtitles will always be displayed on any device since they have become a "part of the video itself". Such subtitles are impossible to remove from the video signal, and anything rendering it will have to show them.

What I assume you mean is embedded subtitles. That is subtitles, in some format like for example SubRip/SRT, that is embedded within the video file as a separate "track". Not all containers (video file formats) supports this, some only supports certain subtitles types etc. Matroska generally supports almost anything, so if you're referring to MKV files, the probability that you're really talking about embedded subtitles is very high.

UMS can handle this in one of two ways: Either send the file as-is to the renderer and let the renderer handle the subtitles, or transcode the video and "burn the subtitles in" so that they become a part of the video itself. Which of the two it chooses depends on the configuration file used for your renderer. It sounds like your TV doesn't support the embedded subtitles in question, which means that your configuration should be modified to reflect that. The result is that UMS will transcode that type of videos, and you will see the subtitles.

A similar logic applies to external subtitles (subtitles provided in a separate file). If you renderer configuration says that the renderer supports this, UMS will send the subtitles in a separate transfer. If not, the video will be transcoded and the subtitles "burned in".

So, if you configure your renderer configuration properly, both embedded and external subtitles should work on your TV.

When it comes to the web interface, I really don't know (or care), the code for the web interface leaves a lot to be desired, and is quite buggy and lacking. In theory, it should handle both embedded and external subtitles by transcoding the videos.
vreebler
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 am

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by vreebler »

OK, thanks. The video in question/example happens to be MKV. I changed the main settings to Force for .mkv - , then, still no subs on the TV or the Web interface. What should I be doing with my Settings? I do know how to edit an INI file.
Image 3.png
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Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by Nadahar »

The problem isn't in your subtitles configuration, it's in the renderer configuration. There's no GUI for editing the renderer configuration, so you have to edit the ".conf" file in question with a text editor. The problem is that I don't know which renderer configuration UMS use for your renderer (TV), so there's no way to tell which file to edit.

The only renderer configuration that is in your debug files, is "Microsoft-WindowsMediaPlayer.conf". WMP has never really worked with UMS anyway, so I hope that's not the one in question. Usually, "detecting WMP" is caused by some Windows computer with "home sharing" enabled, which makes WMP act like a kind of UPnP server and client.

I see two unrecognized renderers in your log (two ZiP Hoppers), but I don't know if those are intended targets. If that's the case, a renderer configuration must be created, since there is no current configuration that matches these. You might be able to find configurations that other users have created, this seems like it might be a good starting point: viewtopic.php?t=292

Here is the identifying information sent by one of your Zip Hoppers:

Code: Select all

New renderer found: "ZiP Hopper(Bedroom 2)" with dlna details: {friendlyName=ZiP Hopper(Bedroom 2), manufacturer=Echostar Technologies LLC, modelName=XiP813 Hopper, modelDescription=U757|U757, manufacturerURL=http://www.echostar.com}
You need to make sure that the renderer configuration matches some of this information (for example "XiP813 Hopper") in the "UpnpDetailsSearch" field for it to be chosen. Once that works, you can edit this file as necessary to match what's supported and not for your renderer.

If the intended target isn't the "ZiP Hoppers", you'd need to create new debug files where you make sure that the device in question is turned on and "detected" when you create the debug files.
vreebler
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 am

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by vreebler »

Thanks Nadahar! At the moment this just makes me dizzy. I may get up to it later. I can tell you:
  • I do have a home network supporting a total of 3 PCs and 3 Android phones.
  • I don't ever consciously use WMP for anything.
  • I have 3 DISH units, the main mother DVR and 2 offspring. For this I only care about the intended target DVR.
  • In general I do know how to text-edit a conf file.
Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by Nadahar »

I understand that there's a lot to get familiar with to do this. It doesn't help that many aspects aren't what I'd call intuitive, and that the documentation is partly outdated and partly missing. I can give you a bit of information that might make it easier for you though:
  • Even though my guess is that the existing configuration in the other thread is a more useful starting point, there's a somewhat outdated explanation of how to make a "starting point" for a new configuration here: https://github.com/UniversalMediaServer ... figuration
  • There are many options one can put in a renderer configuration file, and I dare to say that nobody know them all. Luckily, most devices don't need most of them. Every setting has a default, which is used when the setting isn't in the file, so you only need to configure the things where the default doesn't work. Most of the configuration options are described here: https://github.com/UniversalMediaServer ... derer.conf
  • The whole concept is built on two standards, UPnP AV and DLNA. DLNA is a standard built on top of UPnP AV. But, there are so many devices, and they supports different parts and versions of either of the standards. In addition, some devices doesn't follow the standards properly, and the same goes for UMS. As a result, there's a huge variation as to how UMS must communicate with each device type/make/model/version. The way this has been "solved" is using "renderer configuration files". There basically consists of two "parts", the "identification part" and the "settings part".

    The "identification part" contains information that tells UMS how to "recognize" a particular device, so that UMS knows to use that particular renderer configuration file for this device. The identification isn't always easy to get correct because some devices only supply very generic/ambiguous information, but in most cases there is something specific for that device one can use as a criteria. Whatever information that seems to be specific for the device type (not serial numbers etc, which will only identify that particular device) is what you want. There are two fundamental and independent mechanisms for identification: 1) UPnP device details (sent as a part of the UPnP standard, for those that support that) 2) HTTP headers, in particular the HTTP User-Agent. The UPnP device details are preferable, because they tend to give the most reliable identification, so in your case I would just use that unless it turns out not to be sufficient.

    Once you have made sure that the identification works (by verifying in the UMS GUI that the correct renderer configuration file is "detected" on the "Status tab", you can start to configure the settings needed to make UMS behave appropriately for that renderer. It's desirable if the starting point is as close to the goal as possible, which is why I recommend starting out by downloading the file from the other thread. Chances are that you don't have to do any changes to the file once you get the identification to match your renderer, but that is of course unknown. The important part in this context, is what internal/embedded and external subtitles formats are listed as "supported". If the configuration file says that a subtitles format is supported, but they don't show up on the renderer, they probably aren't supported and should be removed from the "supported" setting in the configuration file. UMS will transcode videos that have any "unsupported" aspects, from subtitles to file format, codecs, resolutions etc.
vreebler
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 am

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by vreebler »

Thanks again.
I recommend starting out by downloading the file from the other thread.
What other thread? something from github?
vreebler
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 am

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by vreebler »

Also,
UMS will transcode videos
- I find the transcoding very confusing, I mean the creation process is somewhat automatic, but then I see a Trancoded folder full of multiple choices with no clue to which to choose. :oops:
Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: hard-coded subtitles not rendering

Post by Nadahar »

The "TRANSCODE" folder i just there as a manual option if the automatic selection is incorrect or undesirable for some reason. When I'm referring to "playing" a video, I don't mean via the "TRANSCODE" folder unless I explicitly say so.

The "TRANSCODE" folder can be turned off in UMS' configuration so that it's not shown at all, but it can be useful to "advanced users" for those instances where the automatic selection fails, or you want a different audio or subtitles track. The choices shown inside this folder is supposed to be all available combinations of transcoding engines, audio and subtitles tracks.
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