UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Stuttering videos

For help and support with Universal Media Server
Forum rules
Please make sure you follow the Problem Reporting Guidelines before posting if you want a reply
Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by Nadahar »

There's an awful lot of different 802.11 standards, the "most common" being "b", "g", "n" and "ac": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Protocol

They all have different characteristics and maximum bandwidths, and it doesn't only depend on the frequency band(s) in use. To know what bandwidth to expect, you need to figure out which standard is being used for the connections - devices are usually backwards compatible (at least among the more common variants), so that any particular connection will run with the "highest" standard that is supported by both the router and the device. "b" for example have a maximum theoretical bandwidth of 11 Mbit/s which translates to as little as 1.375 MByte/s.
Startropic1
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:29 am

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by Startropic1 »

A lot of videos have been working great with 1.5 and the small test library. I have attached the logs from the latest test run. I didn't do any 5GHz testing with my Xbox yet. However, in this instance I made sure my TV was not connected to my Wifi.

There is one video from before that has playback issues, so here's the MediaInfo logs for the problem video and another video that is also 1080p that played fine:
Trouble video:

Code: Select all

General
Complete name                            : E:\TestLibrary\1080pVideo.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 2.52 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 12 min
Overall bit rate                         : 2 729 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-08-06 00:42:47
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-08-06 00:42:47
Writing application                      : Lavf58.20.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 h 12 min
Bit rate                                 : 2 500 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 012 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.897
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.054
Stream size                              : 2.31 GiB (92%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 152 r2851M ba24899
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=16 / lookahead_threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=2500 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=31250 / vbv_bufsize=31250 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=3:1.00
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-08-06 00:42:47
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-08-06 00:42:47
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 2 h 12 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 224 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 212 MiB (8%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-08-06 00:42:47
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-08-06 00:42:47
And a different 1080p video that played fine:

Code: Select all

General
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 2.93 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 44 min
Overall bit rate                         : 3 997 kb/s
Writing application                      : Lavf58.32.104

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L4
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 h 44 min
Bit rate                                 : 3 860 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.062
Stream size                              : 2.83 GiB (97%)
Menus                                    : 3
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 1 h 44 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 129 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 96.6 MiB (3%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
Depending what the logs tell us, I see two issues, (and I'll will have to reinstall 10.8.2 eventually to get us on the same page.)
1. WiFi speed, maybe helpful to be able to disable certain renderers in the UMS menu and/or prioritize renderers access to UMS library.
2. (Large) Database processes This might be the big issue, and it's entirely reasonable that large media libraries like my own may not have been factored into UMS's design thus far. These aren't necessarily the primary focus of UMS's design. The issue is the database scanning during streaming. I'm thinking the most efficient solution is to further separate database building from UMS's sharing/streaming functions. Perhaps a separate utility we could use strictly for building the db/updating the db? I have noticed that the db does get corrupted (in parts) rather easily.
Attachments
ums15_dbg_2021-08-09-23-32.zip
(992.15 KiB) Downloaded 182 times
User avatar
mik_s
Moderator
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by mik_s »

The logs you posted were the same ones as you posted the other day, I think you have attached the wrong ones by accident. :)

I don't see anything obvious between the 2 files you posted the info for, and without seeing how they played in the logs I have no idea why one works while the other does not.
you could try playing them using the no transcoding option in the #--TRANSCODE--# folder to have UMS stream them unaltered. If one does not play then there might be something wrong in that file.

I think that large media librarys are the main reason for the database, so that the files do not need to be scanned when browsing on your device and can be retrieved from the database in a fraction of the time. The database only needs to be created once on the first startup of UMS and this can be done in the background even when streaming something as it should have minimal impact on the normal working of UMS. I don't see the need of a separate app as UMS would already be doing that without a database, it is just now saving the results.

In that last log you still had "scan shared folders on startup" enables in the shared content tab. There is no need to rescan the library if you have "monitor played status of files" enabled too as that will keep track of new files added. (I think this option is a bit confusing now as it's description has changed recently, It was just "monitor files". However it actually does 2 things, monitor the files and keeps track of played status. Ideally this should be changed to 2 separate options)

The reason why your database could give you errors is that you have gone from a later version to an earlier version and there could have been changes made to the database structure that the earlier version does not recognise. but I don't think they have anything to do with your problem. If you want to make sure it is free from corruption you can delete the database folder in C:\ProgramData\UMS\ and it will be rebuilt when UMS is restarted.

The main issue I think is your wifi speed though, that is why a test with your xbox using 5Ghz would be useful to see. Even better if you could connect your PS4 directly with a wired connection instead.


The way to disable renderers is to remove them from the network. They will still be announcing themselves and responding to network messages if they were connected, even if disabled in UMS. I know little about networks and the protocols used though.

I have my suspicions on what could be the problem if it is something to do with your TV on the network, but need see logs without it connected to rule it out first.

If you go back to the latest version of UMS, could you do 2 lots of logs? one with your TV connected and one without so I can compare.
Logs are important for us to help, Please follow This Link before asking for support. Just a forum cleaner, Will help if I can but no expert.
Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by Nadahar »

@mik_s I'm afraid I'm going to "object" to your claims about not "needing" scanning as long as folders are "monitored". I think you're mixing two things here, "monitoring" only applies as long as UMS is running. UMS will detect changes to "monitored" folders while running, but it has no idea if anything has changed while it's not running. Thus, the startup scan.

The thing is though, that you don't need UMS to be "up to date" with the content unless you use the "media library" to find/play your media. If you browse by folder structure, not by UMS' "categorization", it doesn't matter if the folders have been pre-scanned. If you want to be able to use the "media library" and to have it being up-to-date, UMS obviously needs to be allowed to scan for changes. The initial "startup scan" can take maany hours on large media collections. Users that don't care about the media library should disable the startup scanning.

In my opinion, doing this "by default" is bad design. It's obvious that it creates problems for many users, it's not well explained and you're no asked if you want UMS to behave one way or another.

When it comes to scanning not impacting playback, I'm afraid I must disagree again. It will impact playback, both "streaming" and transcoding, for the simple reason that disk I/O will most likely be saturated. When UMS "scans" it not only looks for new files, it also "analyzes" new media files that it finds to know how to deal with them. This analysis usually means reading parts of or in some cases the complete media file. Thus, it will use as much "disk bandwidth" as playback does. Since disk I/O is usually the "bottleneck" on modern systems (that is, CPU and RAM vastly outperforms disk I/O), the scanning process is "bound to" consume most of the available I/O regardless of how much "disk bandwidth" is available, leaving precious little bandwidth left for playback.
Startropic1
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:29 am

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by Startropic1 »

mik_s wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:47 pm The logs you posted were the same ones as you posted the other day, I think you have attached the wrong ones by accident. :)
Oops. I found the correct logs. Attached.
Nadahar wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:28 am @mik_s I'm afraid I'm going to "object" to your claims about not "needing" scanning as long as folders are "monitored". I think you're mixing two things here, "monitoring" only applies as long as UMS is running. UMS will detect changes to "monitored" folders while running, but it has no idea if anything has changed while it's not running. Thus, the startup scan.

The thing is though, that you don't need UMS to be "up to date" with the content unless you use the "media library" to find/play your media. If you browse by folder structure, not by UMS' "categorization", it doesn't matter if the folders have been pre-scanned. If you want to be able to use the "media library" and to have it being up-to-date, UMS obviously needs to be allowed to scan for changes. The initial "startup scan" can take maany hours on large media collections. Users that don't care about the media library should disable the startup scanning.

In my opinion, doing this "by default" is bad design. It's obvious that it creates problems for many users, it's not well explained and you're no asked if you want UMS to behave one way or another.

When it comes to scanning not impacting playback, I'm afraid I must disagree again. It will impact playback, both "streaming" and transcoding, for the simple reason that disk I/O will most likely be saturated. When UMS "scans" it not only looks for new files, it also "analyzes" new media files that it finds to know how to deal with them. This analysis usually means reading parts of or in some cases the complete media file. Thus, it will use as much "disk bandwidth" as playback does. Since disk I/O is usually the "bottleneck" on modern systems (that is, CPU and RAM vastly outperforms disk I/O), the scanning process is "bound to" consume most of the available I/O regardless of how much "disk bandwidth" is available, leaving precious little bandwidth left for playback.
Just a little clarification if you could. In my case I have UMS share folders, (or in some cases entire drives/partitions that are solely for storing media), I don't use the windows native "media library." There are problems, which is why I use UMS as an alternative. I'm assuming that's what you mean by the "media library" ? These are two different things and I can disable startup scanning?
Attachments
ums15_dbg_2021-08-11-13-10.zip
(3.38 MiB) Downloaded 181 times
Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by Nadahar »

I didn't mean any native "media library". UMS has a "media library" as well, which I believe is enabled by default. When you browse media, on the "root" folder, you can probably choose whether to "browse into" the name of a share or to "browse into" the "media library". In the "media library" you will find the same media items as in the individual shares, but organized differently (by type, name, date etc). If you use the folder structure you have created on your storage media when you browse for media, you don't use the "media library". If you instead look up media by name, date etc, you're using the "media library".
User avatar
mik_s
Moderator
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by mik_s »

Nadahar wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:28 am @mik_s I'm afraid I'm going to "object" to your claims about not "needing" scanning as long as folders are "monitored". I think you're mixing two things here, "monitoring" only applies as long as UMS is running. UMS will detect changes to "monitored" folders while running, but it has no idea if anything has changed while it's not running. Thus, the startup scan.
Yes you are correct, but I would assume that most people have UMS loading on startup of their system and keep it running till the computer is shut down, so those folders would constantly be monitored and should not need a rescan. I don't exactly know what UMS is doing so I'm just guessing (hopefully educated :lol: )
Nadahar wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:28 am When it comes to scanning not impacting playback, I'm afraid I must disagree again. It will impact playback, both "streaming" and transcoding, for the simple reason that disk I/O will most likely be saturated. When UMS "scans" it not only looks for new files, it also "analyzes" new media files that it finds to know how to deal with them. This analysis usually means reading parts of or in some cases the complete media file. Thus, it will use as much "disk bandwidth" as playback does. Since disk I/O is usually the "bottleneck" on modern systems (that is, CPU and RAM vastly outperforms disk I/O), the scanning process is "bound to" consume most of the available I/O regardless of how much "disk bandwidth" is available, leaving precious little bandwidth left for playback.
Yes of course, it was a bit late when I replied :oops: Meant to say that most people are not just running UMS then immediately go to stream something, which gives it time to do any I/O stuff when the computer is mostly idle.
Logs are important for us to help, Please follow This Link before asking for support. Just a forum cleaner, Will help if I can but no expert.
User avatar
mik_s
Moderator
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by mik_s »

How did What if ..? play on your PS4? I have a similar version that I thought would be streamed but it uses the e-ac3 audio codec so has to be transcoded like yours did.

I still see your TV is connected in the logs though and looks like it is scanning your files too.
@Nadahar Do you have any idea why his TV is browsing all his shared files, even the web based stuff?
Logs are important for us to help, Please follow This Link before asking for support. Just a forum cleaner, Will help if I can but no expert.
Nadahar
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by Nadahar »

@mik_s I don't know what happens, the TV might try to refresh its cache for some reason. We have seen renderers that try to enumerate the whole "media tree" (like VLC) as soon as they "connect", but this isn't usually the case with TVs as far as I know.

I'm not sure I agree with you about how "most people" use UMS. My impressions is that quite a few will only launch it when they need to use it, probably because the computer is either turned off or does other things when not being used to serve media.
Last edited by Nadahar on Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
SubJunk
Lead Developer
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: UMS 10.6-10.8.2 Suuuuuuuuuuper Unstable

Post by SubJunk »

I think it's generally understood that media servers do these scans to keep up to date with the files. The main ones I'm aware of like Plex and Serviio do it too. Also there are big speed advantages to having the initial scan run for ALL users, because it pre-populates the cache. Without it, each folder needs to parse its contents in realtime, which for folders that have thousands of files can lead to timeouts on the renderer. It's one of the reasons we do this initial scan.

Anyway back to the problems, so Startropic1 are you saying that 10.5 works well for you but 10.6 onwards does not? I'm getting a bit lost in all the conversation
Post Reply