Subtitle priority 2.6.0

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squadjot
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by squadjot »

SubJunk wrote:squadjot, the reason leaving it blank is no good for most users is that in the last couple of years, release groups have been including internal English subtitles in their English HDTV, Blu-Ray and WEB-DL rips, and leaving it blank means those subtitles are displayed when 90%+ of our users do not want them. These are the most popular files on users' computers so we need to cater to this by default.
I guess you, as the developer, decides what "blank" means. - When i say "blank" field, i mean "not set in GUI"..that does not mean that UMS does not have a "default" option for this, behind the scenes.

Anyways, i think this would be solved if we had a dropdown with common options with comments, just like the "transcode mpeg2 options".
But i still don't see why blank field is not the most intuitive.

Then first on that (editable) dropdown list would be :
eng,off;*,eng;*,und /*Disable subs if audio is english*/

Having the dropdown with descriptions would basically eliminate the issue , and would be both helpful and educational in regards to understanding subtitle/lang prioirty and syntax;

About und, can a subtitle/lang track in a MKV happen to be und?.. i think so..and then what?
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squadjot
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by squadjot »

I guess what i'm suggesting for blank field would be something like:

#1 use SRT with same name if exist
#2 If multiple embedded exists, choose based on input locale
#3 If only single subtitle exist embedded, use that.

-- ok--

This means..subtitles is ON =)

That makes perfectly sense with the alternative option "disable subtitles", which would mean the oposite, subtitles OFF.

--ok--

Then you have users that does not want subs for their own language, THEN they read up on, and use sub/lang priority. (or just choose first option from dropdown suggestion above)

(claps hands) done! :)
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SubJunk
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by SubJunk »

squadjot wrote:
SubJunk wrote:squadjot, the reason leaving it blank is no good for most users is that in the last couple of years, release groups have been including internal English subtitles in their English HDTV, Blu-Ray and WEB-DL rips, and leaving it blank means those subtitles are displayed when 90%+ of our users do not want them. These are the most popular files on users' computers so we need to cater to this by default.
I guess you, as the developer, decides what "blank" means. - When i say "blank" field, i mean "not set in GUI"..that does not mean that UMS does not have a "default" option for this, behind the scenes.
A blank option for that field means no priority
squadjot wrote:Anyways, i think this would be solved if we had a dropdown...
Like I said before, there is some GUI stuff in the works.
squadjot wrote:About und, can a subtitle/lang track in a MKV happen to be und?.. i think so..and then what?
Yes, and it will behave the same as with external ones. The only difference between the way UMS handles internal and external subtitles is that if they both exist and are not excluded by the settings, the external one will be prioritized.

In my opinion the current settings are the most intuitive and the ones that users will most commonly want. Changing the way they are displayed in the GUI will make it easier for that small percentage of users who want to change them.
squadjot wrote:I guess what i'm suggesting for blank field would be something like:

#1 use SRT with same name if exist
#2 If multiple embedded exists, choose based on input locale
#3 If only single subtitle exist embedded, use that.
Number 3 is no good, like I already explained.
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squadjot
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by squadjot »

SubJunk wrote:Number 3 is no good, like I already explained.
Because "90%" is english users..? (where is that poll again 8-) )
Ok, it's a matter of opinion and favoring certain crowd based on statistics..
I just thought we were talking about "logic" =)

It's all good, you're the boss - i rest my case.
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SubJunk
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by SubJunk »

If you have suggestions for better defaults for non-English languages then that's another discussion and I'm open to it. I do have language statistics for our users.
If a user is a non-English speaker but uses the program in English then we can't read their mind, we can't psychically detect that they actually aren't an English speaker, we have to go by the information they give the program.
ExSport wrote:I want to say, whatever language is set in GUI, still default "eng,off;*,eng;*,und" is used.
I just tested it and that's not true. Each language has its own defaults, most of which are blank.
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squadjot
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by squadjot »

SubJunk wrote:If a user is a non-English speaker but uses the program in English then we can't read their mind
Generally translations for technical programs are horrible and confusing. (so people tend to avoid using them)
If anything, I'd suggest detecting OS keyboard/input locale, that will be the most reliable, and clearly "best guess" imo

Edit: Ow, and last thing about subtitle priority
So i guess the sub/lang priority should also dictate if transcoding is needed right? - you can se the numerous posts about the confusion about the subs not being present when the file is stremabale.. and the solution should clearly not be, that you have to remove the files from streamable formats list, but to let UMS choose when it's needed.
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by ExSport »

Option 3 is not good as SubJunk said. When you have movie with English and your native audio + also one embedded subs in your native lang (when you prefer original English audio) or English subs (when you want to learn English so you want eng audio and subs), in case you will play video with your native audio, I suppose no one will want to play embedded subs because they are present as only one;-) Or do you want to play native audio with native or English subs? Me not :-)
@Subjunk: Weird. I tested it with latest build compiled myself and commented audio/sub line in conf. Changing GUI lang showed me no change in audio/sub preference.
Maybe there is difference when this line is not defined at all and when it is defined but empty? Will test later:-)
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SharkHunter
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by SharkHunter »

I seem to be getting late to the party here. But what is exactly the problem? Some videos out there have embeded subs and multiple audio tracks. Cool. But since there are multiple once you need to select one when you play the video. UMS allows you to specify some rules for how this is made BUT there is no way this can be done in a manner that suits everyone. It is much better if YOU the viewer selects the audio/sub combo when you start the movie. And this is one of the reason for having the Live Subtitles feature. You are there presented with a list of subs and it is up to you to select the one that is "best". I use the same in Channels but before I use a "guessing" scheme and yes it worked 9/10 time but not 100%.
I would say that the default behavior should be play the movie straight up no subs and default audio. And then you use LiveSubs to select an external SRT file that takes precedence over any embeded once.

I come from sweden and swedish is a very small language so we always subtitle non-swedish programs something I know is very uncommon in the rest of the world where you instead do a voice over. And since I'm used to this I don't want to have english audio in a german movie but I probably want english subs (since my german is well poor). My english is very good but when watching a film you always miss out some words and then having the english subs really helps out (so I use english subs as much as swedish). But if I see a swedish movie (yeah it happens) I would most not want swedish subs (or english audio or english subs). I'm not that odd here so this should be the default for people in sweden (maybe without english subs on english movie) so how do you construct a rule for that?
English audio if english movie- swedish subs if present otherwise english subs
German audio if german movie - swedish subs if present otherwise english subs
French audio if French movie -swedish subs if present otherwise english subs
Swedish audio if Swedish movie - no subs
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squadjot
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by squadjot »

Hi SharkHunter, i welcome initiatives like "Live Subtitles", but i'm not terribly impressed by it.. and this is hopefully not the way i have to choose my movie in the future inorder to have subtitles. =S

myA-Z -> Moviefolder -> #--live subtitles--# --> MovieFolder --> Movie + ALL KINDS OF SUBS THAT I DONT NEED.. (most of them not legiable cause renderer cuts of long filenames.. wooptidoo)

wtf.. serioulsy....W T F.. <-- i mean, you can't be serious that this would then be "the way we would solve this"..

Edit2: Nah forget that "Force/prioritize external Subs"-option, aslong *,und will work, and dictate if transcoding is needed, then i'm good i guess
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SubJunk
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Re: Subtitle priority 2.6.0

Post by SubJunk »

squatjot, if you have a suggestion about how Live Subtitles could work better we are open to it. It seems to me this feature is as easy as possible already but maybe I'm missing something.
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